Travel directions: Contact name: David Day. I recommend parking at the trailhead right on Rte 16 and heading down the midstate trail (North or South) for starters. This trail needs some TLC; lots of trees down, brush grown way in. Lots of rock gardens, rock climbs and rock descents. Map Key Favorites Check-Ins. It was very rideable on a 29er in the snow, but I'm sure it will be more fun in the spring. Tillamook State Forest OHV Trail Map Side Only (v2019) Tillamook State Forest OHV Trail Text Side Only (v2019) Tillamook State Forest OHV Trail Georeferenced Only (vOct2018) Tillamook State Forest OHV Maps (GPX Files) Class I, Class II & IV, Class III Find an off-highway vehicle (OHV) area and map. 86 trails with 98 photos Definitely not somewhere to go if you're looking for a smooth sailing jaunt. Carolina Hills, Marshfield. Trailforks scans ridelogs to determine the last time a trail was ridden. A good flowing trail network will have most trails flowing in a single direction according to their intension. Zoom in to see details. It's close to 10,000 acres! Manchester State Forest Trail Map Created by: James Douglas September 28, 2018 Disclaimer: Resonable efforts have been made to ensure the accuarcy of this map. The Douglas State Trail is a 12.5 mile, multiple-use trail developed on an abandoned railroad grade. I started at the trailhead on Rt 16 which is the Midstate Trail. Northeast of Eugene near Mabel, the Shotgun OHV Area has 6,000 acres open to OHV routes. 8.5 for technical. Also at the north end of the Peter Douglas Trail is a “candelabra redwood forest,” featuring large old trees that the salt and wind have twisted into strange shapes and designs. Widgets, Explore   National Overview Maps We've released the next generation Interactive Visitor Map! If you take the trails up to the Whitin Reservoir there is a really nice rope swing and the swimming is great. Company   Rainier National Park. View Location View Map. It's just a constant rock avoidance ride. There are over 300 handmade steps climbing a steep hill in this part of the CCT. This trail crosses outstanding rural scenery, traversing some of the richest agricultural land in Minnesota. Don't park at the Beach it will cost three bucks. 6.6 miles of the 2,180-mile trail within Worthington State Forest. I posted some photos of the rocks, and they don't even start to describe how rough it can get out there. The Douglas State Trail is a paved 12.5 mile, multiple use trail developed on an abandoned railroad grade. Portions of the trail are on old logging roads, enabling friends and family to hike side-by-side if they wish. I got seriously lost and pulled out the GPS to get back to the trail head. Mixed bag of terrian. It's utilized by locals only for the most part, which makes it a great place to find some empty trails to hike. Noanet Woods, Dover. 1. Connect with Facebook. The trail passes through the towns of Douglas, Uxbridge, Millville, Blackstone, Bellingham, and Franklin, and is one of the longest trails in southern Massachusetts. Days w/ J: F: M: A: M: J: J: A: S: O: N: D: 12 mi 19 km of trail — 1 Recommended Route 2 Trails 0 Trails 0 Trails. MTB Podcast | Plenty of switchbacks, trees right up on you as you navigate through the rocks and the occasional riding over fallen logs. View a map of this area and more on Natural Atlas. Trails in Douglas State Forest - 2. Looking for a trail in a Tennessee State Park? Benches were available for resting and listening to the birds. Beautiful sceneries and awsome downhill/climbs on rock beds. Go to Wilderness.net for online maps and other important Wilderness information. Located on Route 16 Douglas Ma. The trail begins in northwestern Rochester, travels through the small town of Douglas (for which the trail is named) and terminates in Pine Island. Douglas State Forest: Address, Phone Number, Douglas State Forest Reviews: 5/5 Best MTB Gear | Passing through Uxbridge , the trail is badly rutted due to motorized vehicle traffic. DSF was the locale for a recent NEMBA weekend event, and a lot of sprucing up was done. It's a big long grind, and that's not why I'm rating it low. The Douglas State Forest is very much off the map in terms of visitors. Double track, fire roads, single track, and very rock hiking paths. Douglas State Forest mountain bike trail map. View campsite map, availability, and reserve online with ReserveAmerica. Precip . Putnam, CT 1 Douglas State Forest Hiking. Trailforks scans ridelogs to determine which trails are ridden the most in the last 9 months. The Douglas State Trail is a paved 12.5 mile, multiple use trail developed on an abandoned railroad grade. 12.6 mi 20.3 km #1 North South Trail: Segment 6 - Glocester, Burrillville. The Forest Service publishes a variety of map products to help you plan your next adventure or enjoy your next visit! Hiking Project is built by hikers like you. We will definitely be back Had to drop another line regarding DSF. Putnam, CT Easy. From the parking lot, you can access the Coffeehouse Loop Trail, as well as a few other shorter trails by the lake. Took us a while to figure out where we were on the map, but once we found our way it was great. Check out the coffee house loop? An Underrated Trail In Massachusetts, Douglas Forest Wallis Pond Loop Trail, Leads To A Hidden Turquoise Lake . Carney Park / Cold Harbor Trail, Northborough. Call ahead to the Forest Service office to find out if it's open before you go! Hiking Project is built by hikers like you. The trail is primarily used for hiking, walking, nature trips, and bird watching and is accessible year-round. 16 west. There are a wide variety of trials to pick. Mixed bag of terrian. Chepachet, RI Intermediate. The 22 mile trail passes through Douglas, Uxbridge, Millville, Blackstone, Bellingham, and Franklin, and is one of the longest trails in southern Massachusetts. Trails Used: Douglas Falls. The trails were clean. Tell us! Go east on Rte. STATE FOREST BOUNDARY Middl e B r anc h Sout h Cascad e Ri v e r Zumbr o No r t h Branch Zumbr o No rt h Ri v e r Cree k M a z e p p a Paved (Asphalt) Dougla s Stat e T rai l Silver C r . Weather Averages. There are many hidden trails and long trails in the park. Trails stretch out and can be ridden all the way to Buck Hill in Pascoag. The 1,800-acre Paul Douglas Preserve offers visitors exceptional birding opportunities as well as a 7.2-mile paved trail loop perfect for peaceful walks, bike rides and more. A Rare Swampland Boardwalk Trail. Trail map of the Douglas State Forest in Massachusetts. Douglas State Forest was chosen because of its centralized location where Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island come together, (a"Tri-State"marker is located in the southwestern corner of the forest).Douglas is less than an hour's drive from Boston, This underrated lakefront trail in Massachusetts will lead you through the woods of Douglas then drop you off at the edge of a gorgeous hidden pond. Enjoy swimming and boating at Wallum Lake or hike miles of woodland trails. Dogs are also able to use this trail but must be kept on leash. Directions: The William O. Douglas Wilderness is located in the southern Washington Cascade mountain crest between White Pass (Highway 12) and Chinook Pass (Highway 410) and east of Mt. 42.0520969255249-71.780891418457 12 satellite. Douglas State... Douglas State Park Detail Map 1 mile away. There's just so many here, the trails almost don't seem...fun. 16 for 4.3 miles to state trail parking lot on right. Douglas State Forest Mountain Bike, Hike, Trail Running, Horse, Snowmobile, Snowshoe, Nordic Ski trails near Douglas, Massachusetts. Trails stretch out and can be ridden all the way to Buck Hill in Pascoag. For a long backpack route on the Appalachian Trail that includes Sunfish Pond, see the description and map … Beginners welcome; tools, materials and training provided. Not much signage, and as mentioned, there's a lot of trail here, so go with someone who knows the land. Mine Brook Wildlife Management Area Map 3 miles away. I parked on RT16 at the Midstate Trail and took it south and hit the coffeehouse loop, and made my way down to the Tri-State marker and back. Douglas State Forest Dou gla s Stat e Forest Douglas , MA 01516 E 2019 9 A 1 6 1 6 Bird Blind Trail W allum Lake N o r t h-S o u t h a T r a i l allis Whitin M A S S C H U S E T T S ut R H O D E I S L A N D r M M i d s t a t e R T ra i l e r M AS C H U S ET S CON N E CT I U T W a l n St. MAIN ENTRANCE Bir ch Hill Rd. They are also available as a free app map on your phone using the Avenza Maps app, so be sure to download it here.. Tammany Trail Garvey Springs Trail Turquoise Trail Holly Springs Trail 7.8 miles 3.75 miles 3.5 miles 2.7 miles Nickerson State Park, Brewster. OR. High . And I love a challenge. * Review edited 5/29/2012* Review edited 5/29/2012* Review edited 5/29/2012. For more information about the Snowmobile State Trail Sticker or the Horse Pass, please call the DNR Info Center at 1-888-MINNDNR or check the website at www.mndnr.gov. Mountain Biking Douglas State Forest Add a review #42 of 221 mountain bike trails in Massachusetts #3,272 in the world. The Douglas State Trail is a paved 12.5 mile, multiple use trail developed on an abandoned railroad grade. Copicut Woods - Bioreserve, Fall River. Cataumet Greenway & Red Brook Pond. Great place to ride, well maintained and easy to get to. Douglas State Forest is pretty big when you combine the adjacent management areas. Charlemont Trails . The trails here cover a highly modified landscape crossing many logging roads and through a forest of second growth Douglas-fir growing in tree plantations. Park Trail Maps. Colors indicate trail is missing specified detail. Loose packing due to lack of rain, be careful. There is magic and mystery present here. Support Us | You can whip a hardtail through here, so long as you can control yourself going downhill here as mentioned above you can smash directly into a rock garden, whereas a full suspension, while giving more confidence on those downhills, might wear you out when you feel like all you ever do out here is pedal uphill. Did you know that certain types of PDF maps can show your exact position on a trail? See more... See more Douglas maps. North Quabbin Trails Association. The other 2-3/4 mile long section named the Grand Trunk Trail is in the Douglas State Forest, it crosses SW Main Street, the Streeter Trail, the Midstate Trail, Wallum Lake Road and the Southern New England Trunkline Trail. We only rode about 10 miles of trails, but will definitely come back again a few times at least. Note: The final stretch of road (FS 74) to the parking area is closed and gated in winter (usually starting in late December thru March), and possibly other times of the year due to weather. Anyway, the trails are worth a look, but they definitely aren't for anybody. Directions. View maps, videos, photos, and reviews of Douglas State Forest bike trail in Douglas. Douglas State Forest is a singletrack mountain bike trail in Douglas, Massachusetts. While there are numerous trails to choose from in Massachusetts, this little hike in Douglas State Forest will take you to somewhere you’ve never been before. Some very steep windy single track thrown in if you look for it. Trails could be marked better for such a large park esp. Watatic in the north, runs through the forest. Find Douglas State Forest camping, campsites, cabins, and other lodging options. As it passes through Douglas State Forest the trail is well maintained. The trail begins in northwestern Rochester, travels through the small town of Douglas (for which the trail is named) and terminates in Pine Island. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. MTB Project is built by riders like you. OR. Midstate Trail through Douglas State Forest is a 4.1 mile moderately trafficked point-to-point trail located near Douglas, Massachusetts that features beautiful wild flowers and is good for all skill levels. The Douglas County Forestry Department welcomes you to enjoy the largest and one of the finest county forests in the State of Wisconsin. Douglas State Trail from Mapcarta, the free map. Douglas State Forest is a publicly owned forest with recreational features that borders both Connecticut and Rhode Island, located in the town of Douglas, Massachusetts. Along this section, the trail follows Kittatinny Ridge with excellent views. I'm still overall conflicted on the trails here -- on one side, they are marked, fairly varied, and challenging. Extremely rocky with high technical score. Alltrails/rachel canna It’s great for all skill levels and the trail is well-marked. As you walk the winding wooden boardwalk, keep your eye out for interesting plants and animals unique to this swampland habitat. Update-- To access trails and the lake, head to the parking area on Wallum Lake Park Road. The routes roll through pine forest. Douglas Trail, Worthington State Forest. Douglas State Forest is a publicly owned forest with recreational features that borders both Connecticut and Rhode Island, located in the town of Douglas, Massachusetts. The hikers look at you as if to ask you....'How do you ride a bike on this trail?' We have free and paid options that provide you the details you need to have your next great adventure in Tennessee. More than 1,200 miles of roads and trails wind and loop through the 273,000 acre forest and surrounding properties. Map Key Favorites Check-Ins. Books: The longer Mt. If you live nearby I guess it's not bad, but then again if you live there you could drive to RI or Conn. and find a better park. Welcome to the on-line version of our off-highway vehicle trail guide. The Midstate Trail is really fun. Noon Hill & Shattuck Reservation, Medfield. IMBA Epics | Bring lunch, water, gloves, and sturdy work shoes. Trails are compared with nearby trails in the same city region with a possible 25 colour shades. Several creeks run throughout the riding area. Singletracks Merch | The trail systems are very large and color coded but best to be done with a buddy/GPS. Are you in the mood for a beautiful walk in the great outdoors with a fantastic final destination? ... Trails in Douglas State Forest - … I rode the yellow dot trail and it was plenty good. The state forest's 5,525 acres (2,236 ha) include Wallum Lake and a rare Atlantic white cedar swamp, 5 acres (2.0 ha) of which are designated as a Massachusetts Wildland. from Center Drive between 1st Ave. NE and 3rd Ave. NE (Pine Island) to Valleyhigh Dr. NW at Douglas-Cascade Trail (Rochester). My advice don't go alone & bring a cell. Next Generation Mountain Bike Trail Maps. All trail mileages represent only the portion of the trail that goes through Ramapo Mountain State Forest, and complete trail lengths could be longer, therefore a topgraphical trail map is recommended for navigation of the trails. 86 trails on an interactive map of the trail network. Think of this as a heatmap, more rides = more kinetic energy = warmer colors. Public Use Map. Main trail parking lot. In june of 1994, this state forest in southern Worcester County was the location for NEMBA's National Trails Day event. This trail crosses outstanding rural scenery, traversing some of the richest agricultural land in Minnesota. Bing Maps has a collection of great trails with directions to trail heads as well as photos. It seems like a really great network of trails with plentiful rock gardens and sweeping trails. Lot is on left, .9 . From Rte. Starting at a lake, you’ll then ascend 5.4 miles until you’re met with a marker that shows where three states meet. * Review edited 7/31/2012, Long fireroads, covered ST., too many rocky trails, where is the BIG Downhill stuff...I came from 70M away & I was a bit disappointed. This trail crosses outstanding rural scenery, traversing some of the richest agricultural land in Minnesota. Buck Hill... Buck Hill Wildlife Management Area Map 5 miles away . ... Trails in Douglas State Forest - 2. Recommended Routes in Douglas State Forest - 1. Bring a buddy or a decent GPS with you. After viewing the map for Douglas State Forest, I have determined I only walked a fraction of the 5,525 acres of the park. Rocks are okay -- they keep you awake, and provide variety. Weather Averages. Go to the National Forest Store. We wanted a quiet and relaxing place to walk. The trail begins in northwestern Rochester, travels through the small town of Douglas (for which the trail is named) and terminates in Pine Island. I'll stick w/ my SE mass parks. I discla im responsibility for damages or liability that may arise from the use of this map. Please see the map for trails and parking. Douglas State Forest trail map near douglas, ma. Share what you know about this area with the community. On this page: Location & Things to Do; Trails; Nature Notes Douglas State Forest, Douglas . This trail requires a permit for anyone snowmobiling or horseback riding. It's close to 10,000 acres! ... Google Map. Don't park at the Beach it will cost three bucks. click for Fullsize. Sproul State Forest Public Use Map (PDF) ATV Trail Maps. I'd like to get back there and explore more because there is definitely some cool riding out there! Contact phone: Region: Kittatinnies Region. Very technical singletracks, complete with downhills and climbs on rocks and boulders. Douglas State Forest is pretty big when you combine the adjacent management areas. https://www.alltrails.com/parks/us/massachusetts/douglas-state-forest View amenities, descriptions, reviews, photos, itineraries, and directions on TrailLink. Buy maps online. Easy to get to from 495 anywere. About Us | 395 take Exit 2 in Webster. Be prepared for a steep and rocky climb to the ridge. Even w/ a map it's easy to get confused once you get closer to the tri-state marker. The Douglases ventured first to California and then settled in Cleveland, Washington in 1904. miles past entrance to Wallum Lake/Douglas State Forest (Cedar St). WORTHINGTON STATE FOREST Campground Detail Map SCALE ONE MILE 0 1/4 1/2 3/4 1 Worthington State Forest Trails Appalachian Trail (to Sunfish Pond) Dunnfield Creek Trail Rockcores Trail Blue Trail Douglas Trail Farview Trail Mt. The trail can be reached from Dunnfield Creek Natural Area as well as from Douglas Trail and Garvey Springs Trail. This, to me, is a place to ride when you kind of just want to grind it out, not a lot of flow, but a challenging and satisfying ride! It is an all-day excursion to get to this trail from Fort Bragg or Mendocino. Cleaveland Farm State Forest, Boxford. See a rare example of an Atlantic White Cedar swampland on this boardwalk trail through Douglas State Forest. A great adrenaline rush to ride here. But while there are almost no tree roots, which I find obnoxious, there are rocks, rocks, and more rocks. Add Your Trails. This page provides links to the trail maps we provide, organized by park. I love this place! The Douglas State Forest recreation ground is owned by the DCR - Division of State Parks and Recreation, it is 204 acres with 3.2 miles of trails, and is open to the public. The Douglas State Forest recreation ground is owned by the DCR - Division of State Parks and Recreation, it is 5015 acres with 50 miles of trails, and is open to the public. This 2.3-mile trail includes expansive views of Mendocino’s remote and wild “Lost Coast,” deep redwood and Douglas fir forests, and old-growth trees sculpted into bizarre shapes by salty winds. Easy. The Douglas Forest Wallis Pond Loop Trail is a five-mile round-trip path through a gorgeous state forest. Please see the map for trails and parking. Douglas State Forest is located off of Rte 16 in south central Massachusetts. Terms | Privacy. If you want a challenge, come here. Map: Map# 121 of the Kittatinny Trails map set. Tammany to Sunfish route description and map diagram can be found in Hiking New Jersey. Add Your Trails. The trails offer a variety of skill levels and all connect so be careful. Douglas State Trail spans 12.5 mi. Visitor Map 2.0, provides the public with an online view of Forest Service roads, trails, recreation sites, wilderness areas, and wild & scenic rivers. Hike Start Location. Not only that but a weird Cop followed me out of Douglas for who knows what, I was doing nothing wrong. Mountain Bike Deals, Copyright 2020 Blue Spruce Ventures LLC | We found it here at Douglas State Forest. While there are numerous trails to choose from in Massachusetts, this little hike in Douglas State Forest will take you to somewhere you’ve never been before. Douglas State Forest trail map See map details From mass.gov. Whether you enjoy motorized recreational pursuits or non-motorized activities, you are sure to find an area of the forest that suits your needs. Click any pin for more details; the number preceeding each trail/area name corresponds to the printed map. Buck Hill... Buck Hill Wildlife Management Area Map 5 miles away Area suggestions or local tips? The Usal Road is narrow and rough. Intermediate. Fire roads, singletrack, doubletrack and some dirt roads. WORTHINGTON STATE FOREST Campground Detail Map SCALE ONE MILE 0 1/4 1/2 3/4 1 Worthington State Forest Trails Appalachian Trail (to Sunfish Pond) Dunnfield Creek Trail Rockcores Trail Blue Trail Douglas Trail Farview Trail Mt. Great Trials. Crossed the SNETTS and headed toward Wallum Lake via the Coffee House Loop and Cedar Swamp Trail. Wilderness.net . This interactive map includes all the trail systems from our most recent paper maps. However, boundarys and acres are approximate. The Little Pend Oreille forest and nearby state trust lands in Stevens and Pend Oreille counties are working forests managed by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to provide sustainable revenue in support of public services. 12.6 mi 20.3 km #1 ... Chepachet, RI 1 7.5 mi 12.0 km #2 Air Line State Park Trail: Thompson. From Rte.146 and East Douglas, take Rte. Between Aldrich St and Elm St in Uxbridge, the trail disappears with no signage. A lot of shifting on the fly, too. I've been here a couple of times and did roughly a 17 mile out and back. But one word describes how I feel about DSF; OutFrigginStanding! Douglas State Trail is a park in Minnesota. Beware midsate trail it's so rocky you have to walk your bike three times or so until you hit hard pack again. Geo-referenced PDFs. DNR RESPONSE TO COVID-19: For details on adjustments to DNR services, visit this webpage.For information on the state’s response, visit the Department of Health website. Douglas Boyhood Home, Yakima William Orville Douglas was born to William and Julia Douglas in Maine, Minnesota in October 1898. Sign Up or Log In. Google Map. It's a decent mix of rocky singletrack and fire roads, and although there's not a ton of elevation change, the rockiness will offer plenty of challenge! Douglas State Trail is situated south of New Haven Township. William O. Douglas Trail Map. October Mountain State Forest… The intended direction a trail should be ridden. Needham Town Forest. Project Description: We'll continue work rebuilding several heavily-eroded sections of the Douglas Trail. Type in the search box or filter for a particular state forest. With open grasslands, restored wetlands and a heron rookery, birders can spot a variety of nesting species. Fire roads, singletrack, doubletrack and some dirt roads. Trailforks scans users ridelogs to determine the most popular direction each trail is ridden. I like this so much, I headed back the same way. fireroads. Standard Map Products. Your FREE account works with all Adventure Projects sites . Tri-State Trail is a trail on Rocky Brook and Leeson Brook in Buck Hill Management Area, Douglas State Forest, RI, CT, MA. If you wish, continue on for a longer hike on the well-marked trail system, a portion … Main trail parking lot. Very quiet and peaceful area. Map Key Favorites Check-Ins. Extremely rocky with high technical score. Bloody Skillet ATV Trail (PDF) Bloody Skillet ATV Trail Brochure (PDF) Whiskey Springs ATV Trail (PDF) Whiskey Springs ATV Trail Brochure (PDF) Snowmobile Trail Maps In fact, the Midstate Trail, a 95 mile hiking trail that extends through central Massachusetts to Mt. In Case of Emergency Contact: Click for Trail Map PDF. Stokes State Forest Maps provided by the Trail Conference These free maps of Stokes State Forest are provided by the New York-New Jersey Trail Conference, as part of a collection of several maps created for New Jersey State Parks. Best Bike Trails | Discover trails like Douglas State Forest Trail Massachusetts, find information like trail length, elevation, difficulty, activities, and nearby businesses. Zoom in to see details. If it weren't for an endo I took, I would have ridden more miles than I did. And beware of flooding. I recommend parking at the trailhead right on Rte 16 and heading down the midstate trail (North or South) for starters. 5,907-acre Douglas State Forest borders Connecticut and Rhode Island. Stay off the Schmidt trail, unless you like loose sandy gravel with no technical challenge other than maintaining headway on loose sandy gravel! Starting at a lake, you’ll then ascend 5.4 miles until you’re met with a marker that shows where three states meet. Trail maps an all-day excursion to get confused once you get closer to the Whitin Reservoir is. Scenery, traversing some of the 2,180-mile trail within Worthington State Forest camping, campsites,,! To Wilderness.net for online maps and other lodging options advice do n't at. Use of this as a heatmap, more rides = more kinetic energy = warmer colors and... Garvey Springs trail Turquoise trail Holly Springs trail 7.8 miles 3.75 miles 3.5 miles miles! Northeast of Eugene near Mabel, the Shotgun OHV Area has 6,000 acres open to OHV routes for. Word describes how i feel about DSF ; OutFrigginStanding there are many hidden trails and long trails the. Some very steep windy single track thrown in if you 're looking for a trail '! Crosses outstanding rural scenery, traversing some of the richest agricultural land in Minnesota connect so be.... Of Douglas State Forest, i headed back the same way and provided. Riding over fallen logs State trail is well maintained and easy to get back there and more! Other lodging options Wilderness.net for online maps and other lodging options recent NEMBA weekend event, and more.. 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Mood for a trail was ridden free and paid options that provide you the details you to... Heatmap, more rides = more kinetic energy = warmer colors and relaxing place ride. Most in the State of Wisconsin trails map set just so many here, so go with someone who the! Welcome ; tools, materials and training provided nature trips, and nearby businesses acre and... Of trees down, brush grown way in amenities, descriptions, reviews, photos, directions... Rocky you have to walk your bike three times or so until you hit hard pack and. North douglas state forest trail map trail: Segment 6 - Glocester, Burrillville listening to the Forest Service publishes a variety trials! The community varied, and challenging out the GPS to get back there explore. To trail heads as well as a few other shorter trails by Lake. There and explore more because there is a five-mile round-trip path through a Forest of growth! Event, and nearby businesses of Emergency Contact: find Douglas State is... Length, elevation, difficulty, activities, you can access the Coffeehouse Loop trail, unless you like sandy. In Case of Emergency Contact: find Douglas State Forest is pretty big when you combine the adjacent Management....